Ivan Zamorano

Acupunture Treatment

Patients Are the Proof, Chatting about Psychedelic Medicine with DoubleBlind

Patients Are the Proof, Chatting about Psychedelic Medicine with DoubleBlind

[music]. Hi, I’m Jessie. I’m a cannabis nurse
and the founder of marijuana mommy. And you’re watching patients are the proof
where we talk about the real benefits of cannabis. And today we are
talking about psychedelics. I am here speaking with Shelby
Hartman and Madison Margolin, co-founders of double-blind, double-blind is a biannual print magazine
and media company covering timely, untold stories about the expansion
of psychedelics around the globe. Hi, thanks for having us. Hey guys, thank you so
much for being here. So gosh, you, you are both
very accomplished writers, journalists and reporters, right? So how, how did you end up starting a
magazine about psychedelics? Where, where did this all start? It all started on Shelby’s
meditation pillow. Yeah, I was meditating and
the idea just came to me. My career had sorta set
the precedent for it. I had already been reporting on cannabis
and psychedelics for quite some time for LA weekly and vice,, rolling stone
and a number of other publications. And yeah, the idea came to me that it was time for
a media company that solely devoted to covering psychedelics as
well as everything they
intersect with. So wellness, mental health, environmental justice, how do we become more conscientious
citizens as we begin to heal ourselves? And Madison a hundred percent was always
going to be the person to do it with me. So I’m really glad that
it’s worked out that way. And, and it is, it’s growing so much. And I imagine I’m on the East coast
and you guys are on the West coast, so I know you’re, you guys are
decades ahead of us in everything, including psychedelics. So it’s, it’s becoming much more of a trending
topic over there than over here. Right. How, what’s the, what’s the
reception like to your magazine? It’s, yeah, it’s been,
it’s been great. I mean, both on both sides of
the country, actually, our biggest markets are California
and New York. And you know, on the East coast you actually have a
lot of federal research that’s happening at research institutions like
Johns Hopkins or NYU maps, the multidisciplinary association
for psychedelic studies, which is headquartered in Santa Cruz, actually has research centers all
over the country in the world. Really. So the movement itself is
everywhere, but you know, you could look to a California, Oregon, Colorado as centers of kind
of more grassroots policy policy reforms. So really in
all, you know, spanning the, the science to the grassroots people
have been receptive in multiple different places. Whether it’s curiosity around psychedelics
or an engagement in the actual like activism that’s happening or you
know, hearing something about the, about the research in the news and then
wanting to come to us and get a little bit more of a deep dive about. And there is so much research. Can you guys speak a little bit about it? Like I don’t know much
about psychedelics at all. What I know they’re used, you know, they’re being looked at more and more for
anxiety and a variety of mental health issues. What else are you guys
seeing them being used for? Psychedelics are being investigated
for so many different mental health conditions. We could never possibly
cover all the research in one interview. I will say that the first kind of
legitimate study that spurred what we’re referring to as the
psychedelic Renaissance, which is this whole new wave of interest
in psychedelics since the 1960s began in the mid two thousands at Johns Hopkins
university investigated psilocybin, which is the psychoactive ingredient
in mushrooms for end of life distress, meaning anxiety and depression caused by
a terminal illness largely in patients with cancer. Since then, we’ve seen studies looking at
psilocybin for nicotine addiction, for eating disorders. I spoke to someone at NYU who said they’re
interested in looking at psilocybin and for criminal recidivism.
So actually, yeah, so there’s so many
different applications. MDMA has sort of been the leader
in the psychedelic movement
as the substance that is paving the way for psychedelic medicine. MDMA which sometimes people
refer to it as ecstasy. That’s not quite accurate, but MDMA is slated to be legal for
posttraumatic stress disorder in 2021. There’s been millions and millions
of dollars of research looking at the efficacy of MDMA for PTSD in the
veteran community specifically. But it also holds so much potential
for PTSD in women who’ve been sexually assaulted. People of color
enduring racial trauma. Like it’s, yeah, I mean it’s, there’s so much And you know, PTSD is so tough, so difficult because there
aren’t any treatments, you know, but they’re very limited to
treating the symptoms and you know, cannabis has been a big help where
people can access it, but that’s amazing. I didn’t even, I wasn’t
even familiar with that, that they’re looking to actually
legalize it through the FDA, huh? Yeah, absolutely. They are
currently in phase three, which is the last stage before
a medicine makes it to market. They received breakthrough
therapy status by the FDA, which put them on the fast track to
getting approved because it is showing so much promise in an area where the Western
medical community is desperately in need of novel treatments. So absolutely. I think one of the things that’s most
exciting about psychedelics as well as cannabis, and I know I’m
preaching to the choir here, is that it’s showing promise for a lot
of conditions that the Western medical community just hasn’t figured out. Absolutely. So how about the laws? So I’ve read, what is it Oregon is
looking to legalize psilocybin, right? And Denver has, right? Denver already decriminalized, and Oakland passed it or an
initiative that is essentially, it’s sort of like decriminalization
or just like places that on the lowest priority. In Chicago’s a committee within city council
just passed it unanimously. So now city council has to vote on it. And California has a statewide initiative
that we’re trying to get on the ballot. Clarify though that the
decriminalization is not legalization. Obviously you understand this,
but a lot of consumers don’t. Decriminalization sort of paves
the pathway for legalization, but all it means is you can no
longer get arrested,ubasically. And that it’s a low priority
for law enforcement. Additionally,the initiatives in
Denver, it was not the city of Denver. It was the County of Denver. So a lot
of people don’t realize that, again, not decriminalizing all plant
medicines and psychedelics, it’s just decriminalizing psilocybin
which is the psychoactive ingredient in psychedelic mushrooms. Whereas the
Oakland initiative actually made,all psychedelic plant medicines and cacti
a low a priority for law enforcement. So that includes like
Ayhuascua, Peyote, San Pedro. Yeah, there are, I mean,
that’s a good point. There is a huge variety and they all
kind of create a different experience. Right. And different side effects. Definitely. Yeah. I mean,
you know, just these, that like all these different plants I’ve
been in ceremonial use for millennia, I get, you know, and so
whether they’re, you know, the idea is that people now can cultivate
them or use them sacramentaly or recreationaly or whatever
without, you know, having to worry too
much about prohibition. It’s a lost medicine, right. A lost
medicine and a lost art. I mean, that has died with, you
know, so many people. It has been used in indigenous
communities for, for forever. So that’s, it’s really, it’s
remarkable to see it come back. What do you guys think about that?
I’ve been, I’ve been, you know, browsing the different
retreats that are out there. It seems like in Netherlands they do
a lot of like psychedelic retreats. Is it legal over there? There are a lot of retreat centers. The Netherlands definitely has a
booming psilocybin retreat center scene. And I just, I couldn’t tell
you like it’s legal or not, but there’s one retreat
center called synthesis, which a lot of people go to and I know
that they’re slated to open the first legal psilocybin clinic in
the next like few years. There’s also a retreat center in
Jamaica that a lot of people go to. And then there’s a retreat center, a
number of retreat centers in Mexico. One of them is called WUNAVATI. There’s
another one called soul medicine and then that’s just still psilocybin.
Then there’s also legal ibogaine clinics as well as in New Zealand. And I couldn’t tell you where else. There’s a few countries I know
where,Ibogaine clinics are legal Now Ibogaine, that’s a little
controversial, right? Does, is there, so psilocybin is, is one
of the safest substances. It’s actually been declared safer
than cannabis by many researchers and, but Ibogaine has had some fatalities
associated with it, right? Yeah. A really small number of fatalities. We’re actually doing a story on this
in the second issue of, Fouble-blind, and I want to say out of more than 4,000
estimated people who had done ibogaine at the time of this study that I read, like maybe around 15, there had been around 15
fatalities. And most of those, according to Ken Alper, who’s kind of
the definitive ibogaine expert at NYU, were totally preventable and a result
of just sort of careless protocols which is scary, right? Because the problem with these retreat centers
is that some of them are really great and some of them are not really great. And we have a situation now where
like in the Amazon for example, there’s retreat centers
that totally,review the mental health history
and the medications that a
person is on before booking their reservation. And then there’s
other retreat centers where it’s, it’s not even a center, it’s just like a Shaman and who knows
if they’re even giving you ayahuasca. Right? So it is incredibly important that people
do their research to figure out that they’re going somewhere legitimate. Umnd also I would say that what’s going
on with retreat centers abroad is a case for ending prohibition
because if we end prohibition, then we are going to be able to have
clinics here that are regulated in the United States. And none
of this will be a concern. That’s a great point. I mean, why should people have to go out of
the country to get treatment for, and you know, I think it’s good to point out that
ibogaine is often used to treat addiction. Right. Are there other uses for it? It’s known really as a treatment for opiate
addiction and also has been shown to be good for Parkinson’s. Oh really? And what exactly is ibogaine? So it is the active
alkaloid in the Iboga plant. So Ibogas are native to Western Africa
and it’s part of the traditional used by the Bwiti tribe – I hope I pronounced
that correctly. So Ibogaine is like an alkaloid within that and basically
it produces a trip that’s like more than a day long depending onthe patient
and the dosage and you have to go like, you know, shot like we discussed like a thorough
health screening to make sure that the patient is, Because there are risks. Yeah, it is more,
It’s much more risky than psilocybin. But yeah, people, people
swear by it. I mean, a lot of people have had remarkable
results from ibogaine treatment in other countries. In the second issue of double-blind in
this article about ibogaine one of the people that we interviewed talk to
us about this theory called the great disconnect. And essentially it’s a term that was
coined by by a psychologist named Alan Leshner. And the idea is that in our society that
we basically pathologize addiction and that we don’t take it seriously enough
and that that is reflected in the treatments that we are and aren’t
willing to consider,for addictions. So yes, the risks, there
are risks to ibogaine. Umhat being said, like the risk that you’re
going to die from ibogaine, especially if you’re somewhere that
safe and that is doing an intake of your health history is not even remotely
close to the risk that you’re going to overdose and die if you’re
addicted to opioids or heroin. So that really needs to
be taken into account. I totally agree. Before we
get off, before we finish up, let’s talk a little bit about microdosing
cause this is such a hot topic that everybody talks about. You know,
can you speak a little bit. To micro-dosing psychedelics? Yeah. I sometimes say that
microdosing psychedelics is
like the CBD in that it’s sort of a way to like dip your toe
in and not, not really get high. Unot that there’s anything wrong with
getting high and that’s perhaps a whole another conversation. But,uyou know, whether you’re microdosing
to,ulifts your mood or deal with it, you know, kind of like ambient
anxiety or depression, you know, a lot of people also think that it makes
them more productive at work,or more creative or that a lot crazy. Yeah, they’re all different
ways you can microdose, hether you’re microdosing
LSD or psilocybin, which I guess would be the most
popular things to microdose. And you can really just get on a regimen
with it so people will figure out a like what’s a comfortable dose for them.
Umhe idea is that it’s sub perceptible, meaning that maybe you feel a little
lifted but you’re not supposed to be like seeing patterns or feeling
umentally high per se. Yeah. If you’re seeing patterns.
You’re not microdosing. [Inaudible] Absolutely
not. Yeah. Yeah. You, I mean even on a regular dose you
might not see patterns, but just, just so people know,
like if they microdose, like you took too much if
you’re seeing patterns! So the whole idea is to not really
have too many effects as same as with cannabis. You keep the side effects low and
to get the most benefit out of it. Yeah. It really just kind of
makes, it just gets, for me, it like gets rid of the static
in my head a little bit. I can be a little bit more
straightforward in whatever I’m doing. So a very be here now kind of experience. So for people who are interested in
learning more about psychedelics, where do you, where do you guys send
them besides your amazing magazine, which isn’t one of the, is it the first
magazine about psychedelics? Okay. I think I don’t want to diminish all the
incredible outlets in the psychedelic media space, reality sandwich and symposia and
chacruna and there’s a lot of people doing incredible stuff already, but I do
think that we’re the first physical is why is widely distributed.
I’ll put it that way. Cause we’re in a number of bookstores. Fantastic. And it’s a, it’s a
beautiful, beautiful magazine. And when does the next issue come out? December. How can people find you? Where
can they find the magazine? @Doubleblindmag is our
handle on Instagram, Twitter find us on Facebook, doubleblindmag and also on our
website, doubleblindmag.com. Fantastic. Well, thank you guys so much.
Thank you for the work you’re doing. It’s incredible. And so, so needed. So I’ve truly appreciate it and
thank you for talking to me today. Thanks for having us.

2 Replies to “Patients Are the Proof, Chatting about Psychedelic Medicine with DoubleBlind”

  • Splendid, I really enjoyed it!, See this New Album 'Monish Jasbird – Death Blow', channel link www.youtube.com/channel/UCv_x5rlxirO-WKjLIyk6okQ?sub_confirmation=1 , you can try 🙂

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *